"Unintended" consequences of antler restrictions....

[Outdoorsfool]

MDC just gets more stupid every day. Now they want us to believe that bigger bucks is an "unintended" consequence of the antler restrictions? ROFLMAO!!

Missouri rule on deer hunts leads to bigger bucks

Published: Thursday, September 3, 2009 9:23 AM CDT

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- Missouri conservation officials say restrictions on hunting bucks has helped produced a herd of mature trophy animals.

The Department of Conservation adopted a rule in 2004 barring hunters from taking antlered deer unless the animal had at least four points at least one inch long on one side. The rule was intended to get hunters to take more does, because reducing the number of females better controls deer population.

The agency's top deer biologist says the buck rule also has resulted in larger and more mature bucks. The size requirement means that most bucks are at least 2 1/2 years old before they can be hunted.

[Triton X2]

ODF, I thought it was to make steam come out of Smitty's ears.

[Outdoorsfool]

MDC does that by just existing. I told him he should apply for the director's job that is coming open!!

[Triton X2]

Bet there would be a few changes, huh? Hunter safety may be one.

[Warmouth]

I'm happy as hell that Henry county around Truman lake was added the the antler restrictions. After one or two years, you aren't hunting any less bucks than you were before the restrictions, but now they are a bit bigger.

Also the public hunting land down there is flat shot up. My father inlaw counted 17 deer shot out of a piece of public land that was 1/2 mile south of his place, and to say he was disheartened would be putting it lightly. It affected the hunting on his property. He quit deer hunting his property for 2-3 years.

With the antler restrictions everyone still has a chance to kill the same number of bucks and does that they would before, the bucks just have another year or two to bulk up.

Also, there are places MDC is hammering the does too hard. Where they need to be shot, folks aren't taking enough, and where they should reduce the doe kill or tag allotment, it keeps steady or rising.

[RB]

ODF said: "MDC just gets more stupid every day."

MDC = more dumb chit

[Outdoorsfool]

Of course you are happy about it WM, you're a trophy hunter. MDC's mission statement is about ENCOURAGING hunting and expanding opportunities or some BS like that. Nowhere does it say it's about trying to make it easier to bag your trophy, giving into the agenda of certain groups, or setting policies in order to bow down for the almight buck (as in dollar)!

If they are so worried about the age structure of the herd, where is the limits on shooting young does so they can obtain an older age? It doesn't have a damn thing to do with age structure....that is my biggest objection to the whole plan and the way it's being presented. It's about having bigger deer so they can rake in more money but they're too cowardly to tell the truth. Now they come out with this "revelation" that big bucks is a byproduct of their plan to increase the age structure of the herd. Does ANYONE believe their line of BS??


LOL @ RB!!! I love it.....I'm going to use that every chance I get!

[Rafe Hollister]

What I don't understand about folks against antler restrictions is this: Is it harder now to kill a deer than it was before the AR? If you're a meat hunter, then kill a doe instead of a young buck. Surely it's as easy as it ever was. If there aren't as many deer as before, then it's the excessive doe harvest and/or nuisance permits. AR should not affect your ability to fill your freezer.

[Outdoorsfool]

I ain't killing a doe. Didn't kill one last year, won't kill one this year and may not kill one next year. Folks in our area killed too many does for too many years and we are seeing as many deer in a season as we used to see in a day or two. I'll kill 3 buttons this year if I have to. Fork the antler hunters in our area. I can fill my tags, fill my freezer and still follow their goofy-assed, make it easy to kill a trophy AR rules.

What I don't get about folks supporting antler restrictions is why the fork does it matter to YOU what I shoot? It's my deer tag, my land and my meat I'm putting in the freezer. I don't tell you what to shoot, so butt out of my hunting decisions. If you want a trophy, work for it.

[Rafe Hollister]

You sound like a freakin' middle schooler.

"I ain't gonna kill a doe. I'll purposefully kill a button buck just to spite antler hunters."
"Stay outta my life. You aren't the boss of me."

[Outdoorsfool]

Can you not read? We killed does for many years. Took nothing BUT does for a lot of those years. Now we are seeing a LOT fewer deer because....stay with me here....we reduced the breeders. I will not kill a doe. I'll take out 3 buttons for every doe I've taken in the past...and I'll do it legally. Deal with it or continue bitching about it....makes no difference either way because your opinion about what and how I hunt don't mean squat.

If you think adjusting our hunting style makes me sound like a middle schooler, then making that comment makes you look stupid because we are doing exactly what MDC did. They felt a certain segment of the population was taking the brunt of the kill to the detriment of the population so they changed the regs. We are doing the exact same thing.

[Tigerhaze]

We have definitely seen a decrease in overall deer numbers in my area (just west of Truman Lake), and we think it is primarily due to unrestricted doe harvest. We have also noticed a slight increase in buck numbers, likely due to the ARs and more QDM being practiced by neighbors.

Remember that unrestricted antlerless harvest was primarily pushed by the MO Farm Bureau and the auto insuance industry (due to crop and car damage from deer), and from that perspective it has achieved those goals. The unlimited harvest of does was never really a decision made on behalf of hunters.

My biggest worry is that the doe/buck ratio could be biased too far towards bucks by MDC's micromanaging regulations and cause a population crash. Does are far more important in that ratio for overall deer populations than bucks.

[RB]

Neither one of you guys is probably old enough to have experienced the days when if you saw one deer during the season you were thrilled even though you didn't get a shot. Success rates were about 12 to 15%. Todays hunting is a snap for what ever you chose to shoot. Most of the hunters on this board don't remember those days when you had to hunt your ass off just to see a white tail run over the ridge. The guys on mwt remember because a lot of them are oldere than dirt too. Hunters today have it too easy. We had no scents, good clothes and nobody had to wear orange. I remember in 1970 I think the kill was about 15, 000 statewide. As far as our deer camp we are shooting for the grill that day for lunch and the freezer. Young does or buttons fill the bill. We will follow the rules but a legal deer will be taken if it walks in our sights. None of us are trophy hunters but we wouldn't pass a booner we'd just get more burger out of him.

[Outdoorsfool]

Thank you Tiger and RB, at least some folks get it.

If MDC insists on the continued slaughter of the breeders, we may get back to that in some areas. There are many areas where hunters are seeing a marked decline in deer numbers and they firmly believe it is due to the unlimited antlerless kill. Granted we will never be back to the days that RB is talking about, but continuous killing of the breeders WILL have a detrimental effect on the population eventually. That is just pure common sense...at least to most people.

[Warmouth]

Even in the 80's much of the south and east part of the state had pretty low deer numbers RB. My dad hunted 13-14yrs before he shot his first, a spike buck.

At any rate I do agree that we will never get back to the low numbers of the 1930's-70's no matter how forked the MDC is.

What you are getting into ODF is some pretty extrememe deer management plan to satisfy what you are looking for. If you have an "X" number of deer that you want to see, at a z:y ratio, well, you're talking about south TX high fenced type of control over the herd. Not MDC or anybody can do that type of management across the whole state, and have it work out for every patch of land from north to south and east to west.

I'm all for you though if you want more deer, let those suckers pile up until the browse line in the woods is 6' tall, I don't care one bit. But you have to set your plan and put it to action as the state ain't looking out for you or your goals.

How much land do youu have to work with? Is it even a possiblility to implement a management plan on your land?