Age this animal - actual results

Information about bow hunting in Missouri with our resident experts SAMCRO and Hunting 170.
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SAMCRO
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Age this animal - actual results

Post by SAMCRO » June 11th, 2014, 10:54 am

This is a buck I killed this year, in the 2013 season. I saw him in 2011 frequently, very infrequently in 2012, and killed him in 2013. I had him aged via cementum annuli, and have the results. How old do you think he is, based on these pictures? I will give the results later.

This is him in the 2011 season (actually, the picture is late January 2012, after the season closed - I put corn out on my mineral lick for pictures).
2011.JPG
2011.JPG (91.21 KiB) Viewed 5775 times
This is the 2012 season (again, the picture is after close of season, this time February of 2013).
2012.JPG
2012.JPG (71.53 KiB) Viewed 5775 times
The final picture is the 2013 season, a few weeks before I killed him.
2013.JPG
2013.JPG (67.21 KiB) Viewed 5775 times
From these pictures, what do you think? I have many more photos, and can clearly demonstrate this is the same animal in all three pictures. I will post some of these photos later, as well.
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RB
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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by RB » June 11th, 2014, 2:03 pm

4.5 or 5.5 if he is younger he has good genetics like the Cro.

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SAMCRO
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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by SAMCRO » June 12th, 2014, 9:48 am

Interesting - one guess from all these registered killers? I guess if I posted something like a recipe, or an invitation for a Hee Haw-style get together I'd get some interest.

Post an actual hunting-related topic that might prompt some learning that can be applied in the field, however, and you get one hit. No wonder this place no longer has a sterling reputation on the web. :no:
All you thugs and ugly mugs dealing drugs and making noise,
You can kill each other all you want but if you touch my little boys,
You begging for this bullet will be the last thing that you say
before I let my dark side come out to play

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RB
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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by RB » June 12th, 2014, 10:08 am

SAMCRO wrote:Interesting - one guess from all these registered killers? I guess if I posted something like a recipe, or an invitation for a Hee Haw-style get together I'd get some interest.

Post an actual hunting-related topic that might prompt some learning that can be applied in the field, however, and you get one hit. No wonder this place no longer has a sterling reputation on the web. :no:
So doofus, what's the mystery answer? I just saw a thread on another site with a huge 15pt that was aged at 3.5 using the teeth. Amazing deer. It did not have the body size that this one did.

Oh, by the way did you ever see the recipe for the duck poppers?

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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by Limbshot » June 12th, 2014, 11:24 am

I would guess him at 4.5 when you killed him. Really looks like a 2 year old in the 2011 pics and he's got a solid body in 2013, but not overly swayed in the back yet. Sorry for the delay, was out of town all last week!!!
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SAMCRO
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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by SAMCRO » June 12th, 2014, 11:31 am

Limbshot - this was really more about making fun of RB, don't worry about it.

RB - I must have missed the recipe. Duck hunting is for idiots, and cooking is for women, so go figure.
All you thugs and ugly mugs dealing drugs and making noise,
You can kill each other all you want but if you touch my little boys,
You begging for this bullet will be the last thing that you say
before I let my dark side come out to play

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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by SAMCRO » June 12th, 2014, 11:42 am

One more picture - last season on the left, and this season on the right.
cope1213.jpg
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All you thugs and ugly mugs dealing drugs and making noise,
You can kill each other all you want but if you touch my little boys,
You begging for this bullet will be the last thing that you say
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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by RB » June 13th, 2014, 7:49 am

SAMCRO wrote:Limbshot - this was really more about making fun of RB, don't worry about it.
:flippa: :flippa: :flippa:

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SAMCRO
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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by SAMCRO » June 13th, 2014, 1:09 pm

Still getting nowhere, I see. One more picture, in an attempt to get some meaningful discussion going. I get nothing, I'm not wasting my time replying with the actual age.
1213.jpg
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All you thugs and ugly mugs dealing drugs and making noise,
You can kill each other all you want but if you touch my little boys,
You begging for this bullet will be the last thing that you say
before I let my dark side come out to play

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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by hobiecat » June 13th, 2014, 1:16 pm

I agree with LS. I think he's 4.5yrs old.
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RB
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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by RB » June 13th, 2014, 4:36 pm

SAMCRO wrote:Limbshot - this was really more about making fun of RB, don't worry about it.

RB - I must have missed the recipe. Duck hunting is for idiots, and cooking is for women, so go figure.
Does the CRO fish?

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SAMCRO
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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by SAMCRO » June 14th, 2014, 4:31 pm

No.
All you thugs and ugly mugs dealing drugs and making noise,
You can kill each other all you want but if you touch my little boys,
You begging for this bullet will be the last thing that you say
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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by hunting170 » June 15th, 2014, 9:05 pm

5 years, 9 months, and 17 days. Out of curiosity Cro......when you do the cementum annuli how do you know they actually did anything with the teeth? Couldn`t they just take your money, make their best educated guess, and send you the certificate? Also......I don`t really care about age. It`s all about the head gear, and whether or not I feel like letting a buck live, or die, on any given hunt. That is a great buck though.
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SAMCRO
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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by SAMCRO » June 16th, 2014, 10:40 am

Now we're getting somewhere. Tony, I'm glad you replied. I was waiting for one of the few death bringers to show up. You asked how I would know they actually did anything, and that's a fair question. There are plenty of places that do this kind of work, but there's only one lab that will do this for the public. I could be wrong about that, as maybe another lab or two now does this. Last year, however, they were the only ones.

You can't know anything for certain, but I do know this is a certified lab, not some idiot in a garage, and this is how they make their living, and pay their bills. If they aren't doing what they say they are, I would imagine word would get out, and they would no longer be in business. I think in fairness to them, we have to assume they actually produce the product they claim to produce. All you get in return is a certificate of authenticity, which could easily be faked, but bears the name of the lab, as well as the person who performed the work on your animal.

My taxidermist has been using them for a while now, and they cater to taxidermists by offering them packages. You can send this in as an individual, but it's a bit more expensive. You also have to contact them, and they send you collection instructions, as well as a "kit", which consists of nothing more than the instructions, and some kind of container for the teeth, that kind of thing. The taxidermist buys a package if he wants, and they send him a set of these kits, based on how many he believes he will be sending. They also arrange for a lessened fee. I have no idea what the taxidermist himself is charged, but as a customer it's $20.

That's not much money, and my thought, besides that I was curious about this individual animal, was learning the age of the buck wouldn't be a bad thing. When I started a thread about this buck earlier this year, I said he was 3.5 years old.

This was based on my observations of him over the previous years, as well as what I've learned about the backyard deer herd. Most assumed he was at least 4.5, as you see from the previous responses to this post.

I also posted a picture of him some time ago, and said he was 18 months old. The responses here, and from others, were that he had to have been at least 2.5 years old at the time. If someone was "guessing" his age this year, as you alluded to (legitimate question), and they used a picture of him (which they didn't have), I'm fairly sure they would have said 4.5-5.5.

The results came back, and they aged him at 3.5 years old. This is what I thought, and this is why I hesitated to kill him. He was a very nice 18-month old buck, with a rack much better than average. He was a testament as to why antler restrictions are a bad idea. Most would have killed him then, and many, sadly, would have thought they had taken a nice buck. He was merely a gifted 18-month old.

At 2.5, the year before I killed him, I'm estimating he scored roughly 135 inches. I imagine that would be a very nice buck for most anyone, and yet he was 2.5. Another reason antler restriction laws are misguided.

This season, he actually lost time length. However, he gained a tine, adding a matching G4 on the antler where there was none at 2.5. He also gained some mass, and some width, although not an abundance of either. I have no real expectation that had I held off and waited another year to kill him that he would have produced much more antler. No matter what we think, and no matter how nice the first set or two of antlers appear, these are not solid indicators of a mature bucks antler potential.

I have not scored him well yet, but by rough scoring he was in the neighborhood of 140 inches at the time of death - just a stones throw off the score at 2.5. So, I learned a little, had my assumptions confirmed, and am out $20 for the trouble. Good trade-off for me.
All you thugs and ugly mugs dealing drugs and making noise,
You can kill each other all you want but if you touch my little boys,
You begging for this bullet will be the last thing that you say
before I let my dark side come out to play

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Re: Age this animal - actual results

Post by PoisonSnake » June 16th, 2014, 2:28 pm

How can you be sure that the 2011 pic is him?

But, I don't doubt that he is not a 3.5 year old based upon body size. But, I would clearly have guessed him as at least 4.5 based upon the rack and the previous year's picture.

Great deer. Nice 130" deer.

Cro: On a side note, the taxidermist that did my big 8, he aged it at 3.5 years old as well. He only used the jawbone method though, so there is room for error. But, I was kind of surprised at that.
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